Interesting Poll

Im curious as to how many sim style players we actually have in MRL. Just basing "sim" very loosely and disregarding people dropping 11 back on passing downs, so far i have noticed the following as "sim.":

SDU
ClockKilla
BearRomano
Cat Burgler
MaddenJamie (though he plays more freestyle in this league for sure)
Claymaker

Tourney/Freestyle (difference being freestyle as a blend of tourney/sim styles (i.e. gimmicks used but have far more base formations/sets that they use over the course of the game):

SGibs
JayNizz
xswagnifacentx
King Jason
Shocker
Shorticus
mikevick4eva

if you arent on any of these lists, please tell us what you consider your "style" is? Clearly the heavy hitters are tourney/free style players. I dont see a sim-style player winning (or making a run) until about season 4 or 5 once familiarity with opponents kicks in. Plus i dont see a sim-style baller winning without a certain measure of ball control offense against quick strike guys. Should be fun though!

because I like to stir things up and i dont believe in different styles of play...

Dialup when we played the majority of your snaps were from 5 wide! I brought pressure consistently of the edges and there was no protection scheme used whatsoever to pick the pressure up.

Now I'm being devils advocate here but if you are to come into a game with a "sim" game plan shouldnt you adapt during the game as well with a "sim" mentality?

lol thoughts?

A very simple thought:

Tourney(free)Style trumps Sim Style when it comes to adaptation. You have to remember, im forced to play under what's essentially a no-rule format. When I say "SIM" im saying 6 min qtrs, formation limitations and mandatory play call/formation mixing on offense for the most part (to keep it brief).

Spreading you out was my answer to your heat. I had to get down field in big clumps of yardage because at the time i had no protection scheme i was comfortable with vs contain and A-gap blitzing and I clearly couldnt stop your offense. Take into account I had the broncos who have little rushing attack and fumble after every 7.3 carries I had to make some decisions. When I scouted a few of your more recent games, i noticed a few tendencies in which side you liked to blitz from and i also noticed you were susceptible to the flats in non-bunch formations with a quick snap and you were beatable deep in the middle of the field even when you played coverage. Being in 46, that still leaves 2 LB on the field in coverage (unless blitzing) and I wanted that matchup with my speedy WR's. I was counting on quick reads post hike to move the ball.

On defense i was still relatively new to the 'freestyle' environment so i had no answers for the gimmicks (no insult, i just dont have a better word...) like the unbumpable route you scored on the 1 WR set, the canoe-esque zone beaters, sticks) and I had absolutely NO HEAT. So offensively my approach was to just KEEP UP and stay close. (if i remember i believe you were 12 of 13 passing the ball against me, so your reads were on point clearly).

My biggest mistake was not audibling out of that dime cover 3 i ran the previous 2 no huddle plays and i remember saying to myself "audible to man dummy!" and you set me up and staked my heart to get into FG range for the win.

All that being said, I "sim style" scouted you the best I could but you out "sim"ed me with your presnap adjustments and reads. You my furry friend iz da man!

heres my biggest beef just in general - on defense you ran the same vanilla coverages all game - dropped linemen and rushed minimal defenders.

I didnt see any type of blitz packages nor did I see any type of 4 man pass rush.

Again this is not "sim".

Everyone plays under one style of play IMO - individuals make think they play sim as that is there mindset but

you say that SIM is 6 min qtrs? formation limitations? mandatory play calling?

please explain to me where you see any of the above on sundays?

espicially the 6 min rule? why is 6 mins "sim" wouldnt sim be playing 15 min?

Sim belongs to the eye of the beholder. My biggest issue with Sim is that there is no universal understanding. It is simply what one person wants it to be based upon how THEY want to play the game.

Now we are just debating semantics. Wasnt one of our very first conversations was that i agreed with you, that there were no clear definition as to what "sim" ball was and that maddenbible (who is revolutionizing the Madden Community) would be doing the community a service to actually define what "Sim" ball is. But to argue that "sim" is not a style of play would be ignoring the MAJORITY of the offline leagues out there and it would be a disservice to the players you represent.

I still dont think you understand my take on SIM ball. Let's start with what's real:

NO ONE WILL PLAY 15 min quarters so to debate whether "sim" is really "sim" based on that is kind of nitpicking.

There are plenty of teams that hardly blitz in the NFL (Giants, Colts off the top of my head). that's not to say they DONT blitz or that they may blitz other teams differently.

When you come out in 4 WR in almost EVERY SINGLE PLAY, use gimmicky plays to confuse AI, how else would you expect anyone (regardless of style) to play? I'm a "Sim" baller at heart, but im not just going to HAND you the game. Im playing with your rules (no rules), you arent playing my style, im adapting to your style. being that in madden, not every blitz you dial up works without SOME manipulation, I chose not to run them because being new to the freestyle (havent played like this since ps2 back in 05-06) i did not know the gimmicky blitzes (contain blitz, though i know you argue a contain is just like a stunt, but really it's not, at all) and i wasnt going to overload blitz in man coverage with your mastery of the unbumpable routes/sticks. You were assuming that because im a firm advocate in "Sim" style that I was going to play 100% that way was YOUR misunderstanding. How could I adopt a "sim" style when im facing 46 every play regardless of my package set? How am I supposed to play "sim" defense if you come out in bunch every play and occasionally audible down to put a 97speed WR at FB when you audible down.

How do or can you assume anyone would play "sim" style vs the same defensive front all game? Offense is reactive.

You have to admit that the way you play (which is perfectly fine and great and awesome) is not simulation football. Sure, many of the concepts are the same but ultimately much of the talent of a tourney baller is his understanding and implimentation of the gimmicks of the video game. Canoe, motion/quick hike routes, spy blitzing, rocket catching, etc are all gimmicks of the game and not something adopted by NFL teams. In your latest tip of the week (nickle undersmoke) you even mentioned that putting the dt in contain was "like you would see in the NFL" i chuckled. You will never see richard seymore do a contain from one side of the line to the other.

The reason why i say longer qtrs is a staple of sim is because if you run the same formation all game long, chances are vs a good baller, it wont work without the gimmicks. longer qtrs requires you to do more out of different formations in order to be successful vs good ballers. Audibling from 4wr to a I-formation/weak/etc. is not allowed in "Sim" style leagues.

Go back to my MB forum post on what i think constitutes a sim style. If MB can help define "sim" instead of dismissing it, i think it would go a long way.

Dont believe sim is a different style? go to leaguedaddy.com and go to public leagues and count the "sim" leagues.

But i think your argument is that "sim" may be the incorrect name since at it's core, it can never be simulation NFL football (because it's a videogame). Sim just has limits and while yes most sim ballers dont want to put in the work to know you have to manually move your CB's to not get beat by the canoe or that you have to flip shotty snugs 8 times and press block the running back at the exact moment he passing in front of the QB, blah blah blah. It doesnt make them lazy, doesnt make them not passionate, they just want a "cleaner" game.

And Sim, while has MANY DIFFERENT VARIATIONS, is not defined by how ONE person wants to play. There is a huge sect that wants to just play football, not play with gimmicks. That shouldnt be discounted or begrudged.

StupidDialUp wrote:

Now we are just debating semantics. Wasnt one of our very first conversations was that i agreed with you, that there were no clear definition as to what "sim" ball was and that maddenbible (who is revolutionizing the Madden Community) would be doing the community a service to actually define what "Sim" ball is. But to argue that "sim" is not a style of play would be ignoring the MAJORITY of the offline leagues out there and it would be a disservice to the players you represent.

I still dont think you understand my take on SIM ball. Let's start with what's real:

NO ONE WILL PLAY 15 min quarters so to debate whether "sim" is really "sim" based on that is kind of nitpicking.

There are plenty of teams that hardly blitz in the NFL (Giants, Colts off the top of my head). that's not to say they DONT blitz or that they may blitz other teams differently.

When you come out in 4 WR in almost EVERY SINGLE PLAY, use gimmicky plays to confuse AI, how else would you expect anyone (regardless of style) to play? I'm a "Sim" baller at heart, but im not just going to HAND you the game. Im playing with your rules (no rules), you arent playing my style, im adapting to your style. being that in madden, not every blitz you dial up works without SOME manipulation, I chose not to run them because being new to the freestyle (havent played like this since ps2 back in 05-06) i did not know the gimmicky blitzes (contain blitz, though i know you argue a contain is just like a stunt, but really it's not, at all) and i wasnt going to overload blitz in man coverage with your mastery of the unbumpable routes/sticks. You were assuming that because im a firm advocate in "Sim" style that I was going to play 100% that way was YOUR misunderstanding. How could I adopt a "sim" style when im facing 46 every play regardless of my package set? How am I supposed to play "sim" defense if you come out in bunch every play and occasionally audible down to put a 97speed WR at FB when you audible down.

How do or can you assume anyone would play "sim" style vs the same defensive front all game? Offense is reactive.

You have to admit that the way you play (which is perfectly fine and great and awesome) is not simulation football. Sure, many of the concepts are the same but ultimately much of the talent of a tourney baller is his understanding and implimentation of the gimmicks of the video game. Canoe, motion/quick hike routes, spy blitzing, rocket catching, etc are all gimmicks of the game and not something adopted by NFL teams. In your latest tip of the week (nickle undersmoke) you even mentioned that putting the dt in contain was "like you would see in the NFL" i chuckled. You will never see richard seymore do a contain from one side of the line to the other.

The reason why i say longer qtrs is a staple of sim is because if you run the same formation all game long, chances are vs a good baller, it wont work without the gimmicks. longer qtrs requires you to do more out of different formations in order to be successful vs good ballers. Audibling from 4wr to a I-formation/weak/etc. is not allowed in "Sim" style leagues.

Go back to my MB forum post on what i think constitutes a sim style. If MB can help define "sim" instead of dismissing it, i think it would go a long way.

Dont believe sim is a different style? go to leaguedaddy.com and go to public leagues and count the "sim" leagues.

But i think your argument is that "sim" may be the incorrect name since at it's core, it can never be simulation NFL football (because it's a videogame). Sim just has limits and while yes most sim ballers dont want to put in the work to know you have to manually move your CB's to not get beat by the canoe or that you have to flip shotty snugs 8 times and press block the running back at the exact moment he passing in front of the QB, blah blah blah. It doesnt make them lazy, doesnt make them not passionate, they just want a "cleaner" game.

Dial Up,

Im trying to define sim by removing the term all together. Why? Because you, me, Papageorgio, and whomever else wants to pipe in shouldn't be labeled. We all buy the game to enjoy it and to play it how we all want to play. Why do we need labels? Why does there need to be Sim and Freestyle? To brush egos? To clearly indentify skill levels? I don't have a good answer why we need labels but it just seems in life that labels are what we humans use to help organize.

You mentioned in a previous post that you believe SIM follows the guidelines of 6 minutes qtrs. You then mentioned that the reason behind that is because longer games are better for realistic games. However I dont tihnk you can just say that "no one will play 15 minute qtrs". If a persin is "SIM" why aren't they playing 15 minute games? In all seriousness thats a direct representation of NFL games anything less would be "arcade". You can't have it one way and not the other. If you are SIM and want a life like representation you cant have some things be real to life and then others not simple because "no one will play 15 minute games".

Just as there are plenty of teams that dont blitz in the NFL there are plenty of teams in the NFL that blitz heavily. Madden doesn't allow you to create blitz packages and designed blitzes as you see on Sundays. Also a major flaw in terms of pass rush in Madden is how STUNTS do not work, not only do they not work there are hardly any plays in the game with stunting D-linemen. The "contain" is a way of getting stunt like confusion on the offensive line in Madden. Does it work everytime? No it doesnt. Can you stop it by using a pass protection scheme? Yes. What is a pass protection scheme? Blocking TE's or HB's accordingly to where you suspect pressure is coming. I assure you that every blitz in the game can be picked up no matter what. (unless its the QB spy or the double z which are KNOWN glitches to EA).

You mention how I come out in one look for the entire game and then audible to one of the other 5 audubles I have set. Giving me the ability to call upong 5 different formation sets that specifically attack defenses in specific manners. Power Run (for weak run defense) Quick Passing Undercenter (for quick pressure and redzone situations) bunch (for zone heavy defense) compressed (read man zone and man coverage) and finally balanced/hybrid (combines a few concepts into on formation). This gives me the ability to see what the defense is in then ATTACK accordingly based on my reads and what the defense trying to do to me.

Now Madden and it spackages are limited and don't work perfectly as they should. I look to the Patriots for defense of how my offense is run. The Patriots will more times then not come out in a 2 TE 2 WR and 1 HB (sometimes 2 TE 1 WR 2 HB) set. The defense will then come out and match up against that. What the Patriots then do is look for how the defense matches up and then call into the huddle that will take advantage of this. What this does is not allow the defense to anticipate what the offense is going to do. Are they going to power run me? are they going to try and beat my zone? Are they going to attack me with quick looks? Are they going to spread me out and look downfield? The offense I run is a direct representation of how the Patriots play offense...the only difference is that Madden doesnt allow you to do the same type of thing. Back in the day you could come out in singleback ace and then formation shift to singleback bunch or spread or whatever and you had the ability to do this. You now longer can - which is sad to see.

How do my blitzes manipulate the offensive line? Are you not able to pick the pressure up? Literally is it unstoppable? What is wrong with sending double A gap pressure? Do the packers and eagles not do it? Why cant I use a contain to pull offensive linemen one way and sneak pressure in the other direction? Do the Ravens and Steelers not do this from there play calls?

Why cant I put Ford in the backfield? Have you not seen Wes Welker of the patriots in the backfield? Have you not seen Desean Jackson or Jeremy Maclin in the backfield? 2 years ago Madden had a package called "WR at HB" whats so unrealistic about that?

Motion and snapping is not NFL like? Thats not used to try and beat bump n run? Wes Welker, Kevin Faulk, Danny woodhead go in motion almost every play trying to free up over the middle.

You may have Chuckled that a contain is "like" a stunt but go ahead and watch the breakdown today about the steelers and ravens 3-4 defense. Watch the breakdown of that tape - they specifically mention how they are sending one guy one way and then sneaking prssure the other..

I'm going to be real because being real is the only thing I know how. I have been on both sides of the spectrum - I have spoke and been apart of both sim leagues and tournament leagues.

The biggest difference between someone that says they are SIM and someone thats TOURNAMENT is that Sim players tend to either A. not know about specifics of the game B. choose to ignore them C. create limitations as they think fit what there idea is a direct representation of the NFL.

What do I want out of all this Dial up? I want the bullshit to stop. I want assholes apart of the tournament community to stop thinking there better then the SIM crowd. I also want the assholes apart of the SIM crowd to stop putting down the TOURNAMENT communtiy and saying there cheesers.

I want ONE community- I want ONE style of play- I want people to enjoy the game that I have grown to love over the last 17 years. Thats my goal - thats what I'm going to do - and that IS whats going to happen ONE snap at a time.

Come on Gibs, be real bro. The whole arguement that in order to have SIM football you need 15 minutes is just poppycock. If a 4 min qtr game ranges about 30 mins then a 15 min game would last 8 FREAKING HOURS (NOT SIM!, THOUGH IT WOULD BE AN EPIC GAME). I personally dont know anyone who played 15 min qtrs WITHOUT an accelerated clock. But this is the dumb part of the debate.

Yes every blitz can be protected against...by flipping a play twice and just at the right moment making a RB block as he is rubbing his ass on the QB's cock and the moon is blood red and a virgin is sacraficed...when your blocking scheme has to be a gimmick, it aint SIM. A "sim" baller in a "sim" league a.) wouldnt know how to do it, b.) wouldnt care to do it, c.) would think sacrificing a virgin would possibly similuate NFL off field actvities. Also, REAL NFL do not line up in 5 formations all game. I dont care how many hotroutes, or audibles you can call in the formation, 5 formations all with the exact same personell all game is NOTHING LIKE REAL FOOTBALL. At ALL...even College Football runs more than 5 formations all game long. Yes, NFL linemen stunt, some stunt from the end to the center, but NONE stunt from the left end/b-gap to the right end and completely wrap around 4 offensive lineman. Show me one video in real NFL where that has happened.

It would be cool if we could "create" our own blitz schemes (ian cummings, get on this) and import them online like the did once before for offline play (that was an awesome feature). I really really really wish they would bring back man-lock. Talking about creating lock down D (for those who dont know, if you used man-lock if a guy put a wr in motion, the CB would follow them regardless if they are in man or zone and vice versa, if you called man, your cb would stay like they were in zone and the coverage would just shift down. created great chessmatches! (Sealsteam, get on this bro).

I understand your utopic vision of the madden world Alexandgibs the Great, one without labels and free love for all, but fact of the matter is your average tourney baller wouldnt like the be comfounded by the rules of Sim leagues and your average sim baller wouldnt put the effort to compete in a fresstyle league. Not everyone can be madden junkies like we are. To assume everyone can view the game out of the same rose colored glasses is beautiful but Collegiate. I'd argue to embrace the clear differences and allow MB and the MB nation to recognize and RESPECT each style as they are. To dismiss their differences is a gross oversight.

And in conclusion and for my coup de grois. SGIBS DOES NOT RUN HIS OFFENSE LIKE THE PATRIOTS...THERE I FREAKIN SAID IT! And here is why. You admitted yourself that belly comes out in 2te, 2wr and then shifts the play depending on defensive personell on the field. YOU DO NOT DO THAT. You come out in 4WR and audible down. If you wanted to be 100 and truly rock like the Pats, you would come out in base and audible UP. One of the fundimental rules of Sim leagues is the inability to audible down in packages because it does NOT happen in real NFL. Sure Welker may line up at RB, there is always the wild cat, but you will never find welker lined up in a 2te/2wr set with him as the blocking fullback ON A RUN PLAY. You can say you took inspiration from the Pats, but you my friend, do not run like the Pats.

There ive said it...dont crucify me on TWIM!!!!! I debate in loving peace bro!!!

ill comment on 2 things.

I come out in Snugs with a 3 WR 1 TE 1 HB set. Sounds just about what most "base" offenses do in the NFL. I then audible to and from. The Patriots have the luxury of having 2 great TE's. When I play with the Bears I use a 2 TE 2 WR and 1 HB set. Then I audible to and from formations. I read the defense, decide what I like, then run it. I shouldnt have to come out in a undercenter formation or a gun formation. i should come out in my BASE formation- the one i feel most comfortable. For you that would be Gun 5 WR. Thats was what you came out in.

To pick up most pressure in the game you dont have to do all that you said. You can power block the HB as a example of ONE way to pick up A gap pressure. You can also block the TE and slide down. Or block the HB and slide down. Don't put those negative connotations to describe something - unfair advantage in your argument.

Nothing I do takes advantage of the game - I dont glitch, I dont cheat - I read the offense, I read the defense, and then because of my understanding of what beats what...I execute.

My goal is to unify the Madden community. I dont care if you, my Mom (love you), or anyone else says I cant do it. I dont care if you think Im trying to be Alex the Great. The Madden community as a whole needs to be cleaned up and come together for bigger and better things - and thats what I'm doing - one snap at a time.

I never said you cheat or glitch...i promise you of that. There is a huge difference between cheating or glitching to that of a gimmick (Oregon, Wildcat, for example are gimmicks but far from cheating). I agree with everything you say there brotha and i respect ya for it even if we dont agree, the respect is there or i wouldnt watch your videos .

And yes, i did take liberties in using the power block as an overexaggerated example (but an example nonetheless). DAMN YOU AND YOUR REASONABLE LOGIC!

you would think some other people would jump in this convo lol

We are either extremely boring with an irrelevant topic or Im the only one dumb enough to challenge the man with the pulse of MB Nation and a live internet TV broadcast!!! Appreciate the banter as always bro. If people chime in im wondering if they wont be some of the type that you refered to at the end of one of your posts....let's keep it clean fellas!!!